Ericka Racca, director of audit professional services at CPA.com, and Karl Busch, senior director of product management at the AICPA, describe the capabilities of the upcoming Dynamic Audit Solution.
Transcription:
Dan Hood:
Welcome to On the Air with Accounting Today. I'm editor in chief Dan Hood. You know, if you've listened to this podcast for any length of time, you know, that we've been discussing a host of new audit solutions and tools for auditors over the past few years. And one of the highest profile ones has been DAS that's the dynamic audit solution that's being created by a consortium that includes the AICPA, cpa.com, CaseWare and a long roster are some of the largest firms in the profession. Now it's been in development for some time, but it's now approaching a public debut. So we thought it would be a good time to dive deeply into it and here to give us the inside scoop our Ericka Racca. She's a director of audit professional services at cpa.com. Ericka, thanks for joining us. Thank you.
Ericka Racca:
For having me. It's good to be
Dan Hood:
Here. And we've also got Karl Busch. He's a senior director at the a I CPA and a product management for the dynamic audit solution. Carl, thanks for joining us.
Karl Busch:
Hi Dan. Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.
Dan Hood:
All right, Karl, I'm gonna go to you first as, uh, to give us a definition of DAS. How would you describe it?
Karl Busch:
Thanks Dan. I'd be happy to tell you more about the dynamic audit solution or DAS. The goal of the DAS is to provide a transformative audit methodology that utilizes data along with embedded knowledge and advanced technologies to help inform auditor judgment through the selection of relevant procedures performed at the appropriate time. So in a nutshell, it's a completely new audit methodology. That's coming to life using cloud technology, as well as integrating most of the tools that an auditor would use in performing a quote audit of the future. So this includes the audit workflow and management software, data analytics, automation find collaboration and much more in one single tool. If we look back at a recent KPMG study, they found that 47% of respondents said auditors should perform deeper analysis in the areas they already cover. And they also found that 78% said they should use more sophisticated technologies for data analysis, the DAS methodology and tool supports both of the sentiments.
Karl Busch:
We may get a little deeper into the methodology in just a little while, but briefly DAS helps the auditor gain a better understanding of their client, a much deeper understanding of their client along with relevant risk. This allows 'em to focus their efforts in those areas that they identified and assess while also leveraging data from the very beginning of the audit through execution and into reporting and wrap up DAS is also focused on information reuse and providing a guided approach to the audit too often in today's audit world and audit team has to document the same or very similar things and multiple places, which not only is inefficient, but could also lead to inconsistent or worse audit results. Similarly audits today, leverage a lot of audit staff time where they may or may not be getting a lot of experienced auditor assistance training, or other input. So what da does is it delivers a guided approach by providing audit auditors with information that's gonna help them better understand and apply their judgment in deciding what to do, why to do it as well as when to do it.
Dan Hood:
Excellent. Very cool. All right. Like I said, we've already gone deeper into, usually when I've heard it, I say, well, it's X and it's, it's nowhere near as deeper detailed as that. So I think that's a great, uh, overview of what it's all all about and gives people some sense of what they could be looking forward to. Maybe you could give us a little bit of the timeline for, uh, the release. It's a little bit, I think it's a little bit staggered, but anyways, you would know better than I tell us all about that, if you would.
Karl Busch:
Sure thing. So the DAS project's been going on for a little bit of time, uh, last few years, uh, but last year in 2021, we released, um, a user acceptance version. And so all of the participating gas firms were able to use that and provide a lot of great feedback to us. This year's really exciting for us in 2022 in the fall, we have a release that many of those firms are gonna be using to pilot on live audit and getting some real actual experience using it for, for live jobs. And then next year in 2023, uh, we'll have our first commercial release and expect many of those firms to begin their implementation effort, uh, to move towards fully leveraging gas across their firm.
Dan Hood:
Excellent. Well, let's, uh, you said you, you brought up the firms and that's a, it's such crucial part of it because we know one part of the, the creation of this right, was bringing in expertise from, uh, a lot of these top audit firms, uh, literal people who, I mean, I talked to a number of people on, on webinars about audits and, and it discovered that that all of the panelists, you know, that we assembled randomly had all been working on in one way or another, some committee or some approach to this. So it's brought in a lot of expertise from across the profession. Maybe you could talk a little bit about how it was built and, and how that process was managed and how you leveraged all that expertise to, to build this, uh, this new system
Karl Busch:
Sounds great. Uh, Dan, so one, one, what I'd say is the da project. We're, we're extremely excited about the tool and the methodology that we're building, but probably one of the most, the most special things about it. And one of the, the biggest, uh, reasons why it successful so far is because of the firm. So we've been really fortunate to have exceptionally high caliber experts involved day to day with the da project. So it's a direct result of the approach that we took when beginning the da project. First of all, we had two choices, uh, when we thought about how to build it. Uh, and so what we could do is have an automated, uh, existing methodology, or we could have gone and, and built a audit with a completely new methodology that also leverages advanced technologies. We felt that to try and incrementally improve what people have been using for 30 plus years, wouldn't sufficiently transform the profession.
Karl Busch:
So we knew we had to start by building entirely new methodology, a, a really big effort to do that. And that's where the firms come in. So we needed experts and platforming currently practicing auditors to help define the methodology and the tool. So the experts and the firm practitioners work alongside our internal term teams that we've built@acpaandcpa.com. So that's brought in, uh, many resources for internal teams where we've been building audit and data analytic tools, methodologies, and driving implementation efforts, uh, across the audit and communities for decades. The DAS initiative has really strong support and involvement from the consortium that you mentioned. Uh, so that does include over a third of the top 100 us audit firms. And so this gives us regular opportunities for us to interact with and get input from those firms. There's a couple different ways we do that. I mentioned some of the day to day items and I'll get to that.
Karl Busch:
Um, but one of the most important things is, is we regularly meet with a stakeholder group that represents all of those firms. So we get to bounce things off of them and hear comments back from them. Uh, very, uh, frequently, uh, quarterly. We meet with an advisory group, which is made up of audit and innovation leaders from those firms. Uh, and then, like I said, most importantly, the consortium has given us access to dozens of experts that work on our project on a daily basis. Um, so like I said, that's the most valuable resource that we have in the da project. We often say that DAS is built for auditors by auditors. So it's really important to have that. And then if we broaden it past the people that are just involved in the project, we've been able to open it up. Like I said, last year, we did a user acceptance testing event. We've had other things like that. It allowed us to expand the exposure within those da firms and also get new targeted and unfiltered input on certain features. So the da usability, overall methodology, or other items, we, we get a lot of information and feedback from them, uh, and the tune of thousands of pieces of, of user input that we get to leverage in the design and the delivery of da.
Dan Hood:
Very cool. I mean, I think that combination of, of, of a, of a, a clean slate, right? You said not trying to just automate, what's been done before, but, but saying, let's start with, what is the tech, what can the technology do and then turning to everybody in the profession and saying, what would you like it to do? Or, I mean, that's, uh, that, that combination's gonna be pretty powerful. Eric, I wanna bring you in on this, talk a little bit about the, uh, your take on how it was built and all that background.
Ericka Racca:
Well, as an auditor myself. So I worked as an auditor for many years before I moved into learning. And now kind of helping out on this project with the professional services. It truly is, uh, methodologies for auditors built by auditors. And that's what I think makes it so exciting, you know, as Karl. mentioned, and as we've said, you know, we've been auditing for many years and it's, you know, it's called that paper based audit. And a lot of technology over the years has also come out to assist them and make those audits better, more efficient, more effective, but what makes stats different is that the data is driving the audit, and it's not a linear approach. It's has that like person sitting over your shoulder, really helping guide the auditor as they're doing it in the field, by themselves, without the senior manager there. And it's using technology and building on technology as technology grows to really leverage analytics and AI, and eventually start to help build and, and grow more value to our clients. It's really kind of taking out some of those mechanical decisions and things that we have to do as auditors, so we can focus more on what's important and we can be better at identifying those risks.
Dan Hood:
Cool. Well, I wanna talk more about that, that sort of over the shoulder view of what it's gonna be like to use sort of on a day everyday basis or how it's gonna fit into auditor's workflow. Um, but we need to, to step away for a quick break. All right. And we're back talking with Erica RKA and Carl Bush about the upcoming dynamic audit solution, which is, uh, uh, I don't think it's too much to call it. One of, one of the biggest, if not the biggest sort of technological development in the audit field in a long time, it's pretty exciting stuff. Um, uh, we've talked a little bit about sort of what it is a broad level, how it was built, but now Eric, I wanna to ask you a little bit more about how it's gonna fit into sort of the average auditors day when they look at this and say all well, at what point am I gonna start using da and what's that gonna look like in terms of my workflow,
Ericka Racca:
The firms who decide to make this change, which will be a big change. You know, it's not just a change of adding a new technology onto the way they do things now. I mean, every firm right now has an audit methodology that they follow. So this is changing, not just the tool they're using to help make their audits better and more efficient, but it's also changed the way that they think and the way they conduct their audits, because it's a, it's a new, it's a new methodology and it's, it's taking the audit in a different direction, trying to transform the audit. So once a firm decides that they're gonna make this change, I mean, DAS is a complete solution from end to end. So right now many firms will use one software to manage their work papers. Then they have another software for their audit methodology and their documentation.
Ericka Racca:
Since again, there's a lot of technology tools out there to help auditors now, but that's probably a different vendor than their work paper management tool. And, and then if they have a data analytics that they're trying to incorporate, that's another software and probably another vendor and I could keep going, but those are probably the biggest ones. But with this approach that this approach right now has the audit work and the documentation and multiple places. And then it requires time to pull it together for one complete audit file on the end, da has, or will have in the future. Like once we get to that more end state, they'll have all these tools in one place. So it's a one stop shop. You know, they'll do everything within DAS, they'll start and end in da. And the analytics will be built into there, their sampling and all these different things that they do. So in the end, it's gonna produce a more effective, a more efficient and a more thorough, thorough audit that will add value to our clients. We always talk about how to add value, but oftentimes people. And when they look from the outside in, they see us as like a compliance shop, but we really, yes, there's compliance component, but that's not all it is. And DAS is really gonna give us that edge and the advantage to bring more value to the client and make it a, a better audit.
Dan Hood:
Gotcha. Now I'm taking it from, from some of the things we you've been saying about, uh, right. It's a new methodology in firms are, uh, gonna need to, at the very least adapt their methodology depending on close. Cause it may be, or maybe just adopt this entire new methodology, but I'm gonna guess from that, that, that maybe this workflow's gonna be to some degree, very different from, um, what they're looking at. Carl, I wanna ask you, is, is that fair to say this workflow's gonna be potentially very different from what they've done or is it gonna look like their previous workflow or are they gonna recognize this process,
Karl Busch:
The overall workflow that you are gonna see in might initially feel similar. It's gonna have phases that are like most other audits, but there are also some significant differences. First of all, leverages data, right from the moment that you accept the audit client. So this involves getting a lot more data in getting it earlier from the client. So we support this in many different ways. So we have data request letters, direct connections to ER, uh, cloud-based E systems as well as third party connectors. The data is used initially to get a stronger understanding of the client and their systems and processes help Al is to help by providing suggestions to them that are gonna help to focus the auditors on the relevant thing at their appropriate times as they progress through the audit. So this is gonna shuffle a few things around compared to how people may perform an audit today. The last significant change to note in the audit workflow, uh, in da is one that might feel a bit different than today. And that's that the audit is no longer one long linear process it's completely connected and it can be more multi-directional. So this means that if something is discovered, that changes what you plan for, we need to go and understand what that is, why it happened and determine if you need to change your audit approach.
Dan Hood:
Gotcha. Well, I, I mean, I think what's interesting about that is as you describe that none of those changes seem like they should be particularly terrifying to anybody in the audit world. Um, and, and, and, and where they, even at the moments where they do represent the biggest changes. You talk about getting a lot of the, the data earlier in the process and, and, and spending a lot more time or a lot more focus on the risk assessment. Those are so clearly beneficial, right? That you couldn't imagine anybody, uh, even if it doesn't for the first year, at least may involve some changes and some, some thinking, uh, the benefit to
Ericka Racca:
It's a change your mindset. Yeah. It's a change in mindset, but, you know, I'm new to the project. I'm new to cpa.com. So I've, you know, had to go through some of the learning and training of DAS to understand it. And to me, it's not really, it is definitely a change in how most firms are doing things, but not necessarily a change in what the standards tell them that they should do. So, um, it's just, it's, I think it's a better way to approach it because of that guided methodology and that, you know, auditor over your shoulder, it's helping you remember or realize if you do something in field work that identifies a misstatement or whatnot, that you have to go back, adjust your planning and your risk assessment so that everything flows in ties within the audit. And it's not that you shouldn't have done that before an audit, you know, when the risk students came out years ago, it was trying to make them less linear, but our tools are, were very linear. It's still, it was still that paper based audit, but dads is trying to change that thinking and really help almost force it to make sure that things flow and to help that documentation along the way. So it's more efficient.
Dan Hood:
Excellent. One of the things that sort of underpins this, we talked about is the goal of taking advantage of modern technology, right? The, the, the data tools that we have and all the sorts of, uh, of analytics capabilities, et cetera, et cetera, that are available out there now. And, and the notion, right, for a lot of that is that that will change. Uh, technology's gonna change. We're always gonna find new technologies, new developments, uh, improvements in what we've got. Is there plans to keep gas updated for that kind of technological change? Carl, can you tell us about that?
Karl Busch:
Sure. Yeah. We, we wanna make sure that we're careful, right. There's a lot of change going on over the last couple years that people have been, um, experiencing people have done a really good job. They've adapted, they find new working styles. Uh, and so we wanna make sure that we're not overloading people, but with da, there, there is a, a learning curve, right? You have to turn get those changes that we've been talking about, uh, earlier today into the hands of the otters, make sure that they're comfortable with it. And we wanna make sure that we're keeping, uh, the tool growing, right? So the primary content of DAS we're gonna update on an annual basis. So this has been allow firms to align this with their annual training cycles coming out of business season. Uh, so those release that will have kind of the biggest impact every year, it'll have new standards.
Karl Busch:
Other larger changes, big features that you really need to focus on, on changing. But like you said, with new technology, we can make it, it's easier for us to, to release, um, new features, uh, along the way. So if we have new features that are gonna provide additional value, that won't impact the audit approach that people have already been trained on, we'll be releasing those as we go. So they'll get certain platform features and other da features, uh, coming to them as those are available. And then another important thing to talk about is industry content. So that'll be released as it's being developed for new industries and then updated in accordance with the common timing for each of those industries audit cycle. So it might not necessarily coincide with that annual release. I mentioned for the kind, the core da tool, um, things like EVP and other things are released on a slightly different schedule than that. Uh, but will also be focused on a similar release game than I, what I just talked about.
Dan Hood:
Gotcha. And are there, uh, I mean, I imagine industry, uh, focus must be a big part of this, but as you look ahead, are there specific features that you already have in mind for sort of secondary releases or, you know, or things, you know, you wanna develop,
Karl Busch:
We're definitely not done with next year's 20, 23 da release. There are gonna be continuous improvements. In addition to the DAS after this initial release, since da is intended to be a transformative tool that makes maximum use of the latest technology, uh, for the benefit of audit quality and efficiency, it's never gonna be done. So every release that we'll have for data will evolve the layer in not only updates, but also additional content and functionality as we pursue continuous improvement and transformation. A few examples of this would be more machine learning, additional data analysis tools and procedures, evolving suggestions to the auditor and more third party. Um, integrations of course, the most important thing we have is the professionals that are using the tool. So we'll continue to be informed by their evolving need and the feedback we received from our users.
Dan Hood:
Awesome. Yeah. Well, you couldn't have a better set of, uh, sort of test users. Uh and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to share their thoughts as you go forward. So it'd be great to, to update it that way. Um, Eric, I, we, we could spend a lot more time talking about this. There's a lot more features and I know people are gonna be super excited about it, but we're running short of time. So Eric, I wanna turn to you, cuz you had mentioned, um, you know, the shift in mindset that the DAS is, uh, you getting the most outta da is gonna require a little bit of a shift in mindset maybe have should, and adapt to themselves. Thinking themselves
Ericka Racca:
Mean we keep talking about being a transformative audit. So transformation is probably one of the hardest, but most rewarding things you can go through, whether it's personal or professional. And so this is gonna be a large change it's you know, most firms, as Cole mentioned, there's been a lot of change over the past two years, a lot of technologies that have come out most firms, whether it's because of COVID and having to make that transition, or just because of the, the new tools out there have done some kind of a change within their firm already. So they have some experience. So I would say one of the first things they wanna do is just think about a recent change, like a technology change of software change, what went well, what didn't go well, I mean, if they haven't done that already, a big part of change management is to try to do that assessment and the end.
Ericka Racca:
And that will kind of help them think about how they can make a big transformational change like that. And that's, you know, that's pretty high level, uh, and you know, change itself is not just about it's about the people and the process. And sometimes they think that when we go through change or companies go through change, they forget about the people and they focus on the process from a general standpoint, I kinda look at change management as the three CS. So you need to commit to it. You need to collaborate and you need to communicate. So commitment is at top down a change like that, where you're not just adding on a technology tool, your audit, like you're changing your methodology and that mindset and how you approach things and really where you spend your time. You need to be willing to make that change.
Ericka Racca:
It needs to come from the top down. And a lot of times what will happen with change references that they'll fail is leadership just says, we're gonna do this. Um, you'll wanna make sure that you bring people together to collaborate, to plan and execute. So start thinking about if, you know, when you wanna make this change to Daaz who are those key people, those champions that you wanna be part of it, the auditors, it, other people, getting the clients involved, kinda creating a task force of who can help make those decisions and start thinking about a strategic plan that will have goals and milestones. So here's what we are today, but here's what we need to get done. And then that last see is to communicate because communication is key, no matter what you're doing, make it early clear, consistent to all parties, not just what you're doing, but why.
Ericka Racca:
So what's the value of this new tool and this new methodology, how will it improve the audit? So for example, we're improving our enhancing the quality of our audit. We're creating value to the client taking away. Like I said earlier, taking away some mechanical processes of the audit so we can fo focus on what's more important. So we call this the with and learning. We call this the with concept w I, I FM what's in it for me, when you explain the benefits, the why you'll get a lot stronger buy in, cuz you wanna avoid those who are using the tool the most, not like pushing back and not buying in and then finding work around. So they're not using the tool the way it's designed to be used. So that's kind of like a broad perspective of just thinking about change management. If you wanna think more like specifically to DAS and some things that you could do to help you to prepare for it.
Ericka Racca:
Um, DAS is cloud based. So if you're not already in the cloud, are there things you could do now to move to the cloud? Or what would your firm need to do in order to transition to the, to cloud? And you know, Carl mentioned, or we both mentioned how data is at the core of da. So talk, talking to your clients now about data, help them understand what you're gonna need, why you're gonna need it, cuz it will be different. You know, firms are getting ready to start their planning for 2022 audits, which they're not using dash, but you can start having the conversations. Now take advantage of being in front of them because getting the data is gonna take time. It's gonna trial and error. You're gonna wanna start with like a small subset and then gonna kind of go back to get what you need, but then when you're ready, make it to transition to da, you've got that data, you know what you need and you're ready to go.
Ericka Racca:
DAS also has a standard taxonomy. So does your firm have a standard taxonomy and account mapping if not start getting like some of the participating firms, that's what they're focusing on. They're just trying to get the firm to a standard taxonomy. So it's easier to transition to the DAS taxonomy and the DAS taxonomy is pretty much based off XBRL, which is very common. And then taking the inventory of your tools. You've got a lot of tools already. You've like I said earlier, you've got all these different technology tools. So what do you have? How are you using it? Who's using it and what might change if and when you adopt DAS.
Dan Hood:
Excellent. Right? Well, that's a, that's a great roadmap. And I think, uh, you've covered a lot of the things they need to communicate, right? This whole podcast is they should just play this podcast and say, this is why we need it. Get to work. Uh, no can, but they, uh, but it's been a great primer. I think for firms as they look to, to prepare themselves, to adapt, to adapt this and adapt to it, um, and uh, a great set of ideas for how they can communicate the value of, to, uh, to both their staff and their clients. So that's awesome. Ericka Racca and Karl Busch. Thank you so much. Uh, I appreciate, uh, your joining us today. Thank you. Thanks a lot. And thank you all for listening. This episode of On the Air was produced by Accounting Today with audio production, by Kellie Malone. Rate or review us on your favorite podcast platform and see the rest of our content on AccountingToday.com. Thanks again to our guests and thank you for listening.
